Forum:Alliance Ranks and Promotions
I am curious as to how the Alliance promotes its military personel. In ME1 Ashley Williams is ranked as a Gunnery Chief. Given that the events of this game take place in 2183 and that she is supposedly born in 2158 and assuming that she enlisted at 18 this means she had to advance 5 rank grades in just 7 years. http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Systems_Alliance_Military_Ranks#Systems_Alliance:_Military_Ranks This is good going, particularly considering how much she believes that upper elements of the alliance are actively holding her back. By the time ME3 rolls around, sorry don't know the date, she is now ranked at Lieutenant Commander, another 5 rank grade jump in however many years. When I served as soldier in the british army it was a fact that you had to spend at least 1 year in your current rank before you are even considered for further promotion. I suppose she could have been picked out for special training in order to become an NCO so rapidly, similar to how the cold war soviet union got its NCOs, but that would contradict her belief that as General Williams grand daughter she is being held back. At one point in ME2 Joker refers to Ash as Operations Chief, following your mission to Horizon, so that explains one promotion. What do others think, and any ideas as to why she has advanced so far 10 rank grades so fast?--TSwiftFan1346 23:43, March 6, 2012 (UTC) ::Just want to say that I haven't got ME3 yet (Greetings from the UK!) so I don't know whether the codex has been altered, but, as a side note, is it confirmed, officially, that the rank of Captain in the Navy equates to Major in the Marines? I notice there's been a bit of a "debate" on the page. It's just that, by general, present-day practice, a Major equates to a Lt Commander. So by having a Major Alenko and Lt Cmdr Williams, both of them are of equal rank. The only problem I see with that is not only has Ash caught up with Kaidan big time, as you say, but Kaidan was a Commander in ME2 so if anything he's surely been de''moted in that time? ::Like I say, haven't played ME3 so I don't know if this is addressed in the game.--ZedderZulu 08:01, March 7, 2012 (UTC) :::Ahem, well, the rank structure is established in ME''2 (and probably the first one if I actually took the time to read it properly), so my point's a moot one...--ZedderZulu 22:56, March 7, 2012 (UTC) :: It's quite possible she was singled out during basic for NCO training; that would account for her initial rank of Gunnery Chief. The Singapore Army does that. Give about two years, NCO training included, she's been Gunnery Chief for 5 years. Well past time for promotion. Stopping Saren definitely netted her the promotion. Perhaps she was offered a chance to convert to an officer; a sign of the bias against her name fading like she said. If she did convert it would coincide nicely with ME 3. Based on the way Anderson addresses her, and Shepard's initial reaction to her rank, she could be a newly minted LC. Stormkeeper 13:29, March 12, 2012 (UTC) ::: I've also been thinking about this as I'm trying to write a fanfic about my Shepard character - how does (s)he rise up through the ranks so quickly? Looking at the FAQs section on the Royal Navy website, it is possible to ascend to the rank of Lieutenant (fourth rank up the commissioned officer scale) within six years of obtaining one's commission. As such it is entirely possible for Shepard to be a Lieutenant Commander by the time the games roll around, even assuming s(he) joined as an enlisted (wo)man in 2172, given the extraordinary events that s(he) has taken part in (Akuze/Eliysium/Torfan, N7 training). I also gave my Shepard a push by assuming a biotic would have extra training and promotion, in a similar way to the automatic promotion of members of the Royal Military Police (though I acknowledge this is so they have the authority to make arrests and that such an explanation only works for biotics). Ashley, however, is a bit of a problem! Perhaps Williams was kicked up to a desk job to shut her up or was seen to need the authority of a commission for her investigation of Cerberus and Shepard in the second game. Can we just handwave by saying it's fiction and the writers slipped up? Je_Suis_Le_Walrus ::Ashley was born in 2158CE, and enlisted at age 18(2176CE). She is a Gunnery Chief, which is a NonCommissioned Officer in 2183CE, an Operations Chief(NCO) in 2185, and a Lt. Commander which is an Officer, in 2186CE. Thus, and this is where your math is wrong, in the 7 years(ME1) that she has been with the Alliance military she was promoted 4 times, in 9 years(ME2) she was promoted 5 times, and 10 years(ME3) she would be promoted 6 times; Private 2nd class to Private 1st class, Private 1st class to Corporal, Corporal to Service Chief, and Service Chief to Gunnery Chief, Gunnery Chief to Operations Chief, and Operations Chief to Lt. Commander. Now, this is where I will compare the Alliance to both NATO, and wright or wrong, the USMC(because ashley was a marine). In applying the NATO rank rubrick to the Alliance: on the enlisted side PVT2=E1, PVT1=E2, CPL=E3, S.Chf=E4, G.Chf=E5, O.Chf=E6; on the officer side 2LT=O1, 1LT=O2, S.LT=O3, Lt.Cdr=O4, S.Cdr=O5, CPT/MAJ=O6. In applying the standard USMC enlisted promotion schedule: E1 is eligible for promotion to E2 after 6 months in both service(TIS) and grade(TIG), and from E2 to E3 after 9 months TIS/8 TIG, E3 to E4 after 8 TIG/12 TIS, E4 to E5 after 12 TIG/24 TIS, and E5 to E6 after 2 years TIG/4 years TIS. Thus, it would be minimally POSSIBLE for her to be a Gunnery Chief(ME1) after 3 years and Operations Chief(ME2) after 5 years assuming she was qualified(which she was) and she had her commanding officer's support(which she did not). FYI the USMC average has E5 at 5 years and E6 at 10, the implication being that she was being held back up untill she met up with Shepard, then fast tracked. Also, from a TIS standpoint, Shepard's supprise at her promotion is valid since Lt.Cdr(O4) requires 10 years TIS and she would have just recently reached that mark and most promotion boards convene in the fall. Also, Alliance Brass likes her at this point. On a Kaiden related side note, his works too since in ME1 he is a Staff Lt.(O3) which has a 4 tear TIS requirement and he had 10years, and in ME3 Major(O6) requires a minimum of 22 years TIS and since he enlisted in 2173 he had 26 years.--MrRabbitSir (talk) 22:07, July 11, 2013 (UTC) Hi MrRabbitSir. Can you clarify for me how you get 6 promotions. In ME1 Ash is a Gunnery Chief (number 5 on the rank structure) and in ME3 she is a Lieutenant Commander (number 10 on the rank structure). That's five promotions right there between ME and ME3. If you take into account her Operations Chief status in ME2 then you still have 4 promotions to account for in 6 months to a year (the events in arrival are supposed to be 6 months prior to ME3). She makes a 4 grade jump in a year? Furthermore she is jumping from enlisted to commissioned officer. Also you don't seem to have taken training into consideration. For me, my basic and trade training covered more than a year (15 months give or take a day). This does not include the 4 months I had to wait around between basic and trade training. Plus another 2 months before being sent to my first working unit after trade. For those doing the maths that's 21 months. The reason I bring this up is that when I joined I became a Signalman (Royal Corp of Signals name for a Private), however until I passed basic I was a recruit, even though on all paperwork I was listed as a Private and addressed as Signalman. Further, until I had completed trade and and got out to a working unit I was technically not eligible for promotion. Not sure how long Ash was in training for, but I hope it was more than the 3 months that I was in basic for, and I am assuming hers would include all the training necessary for working in space. Also mention is made of "a list of crap assignments". In other words you get sent where they need someone of your rank and trade. If you end up at a lot of dead end assignments chances are you aren't going to impress the promotions board. For me I never got sent to any of the prime postings, but I also avoided every potential/active combat zone. I am assuming that the Alliance just doesn't promote people simply because they have held a rank for a period of time, or been in the service for a set period of time, and actually base their promotion choices off of the individuals ability not only at their current rank, but those who have displayed an ability to function effectively at the higher rank (it is hard to judge if someone can function at vastly higher rank). Training just means that you know what to do, not that you can actually do it when you need to. I have met idiots like this in the service who have found loop holes to exploit and get promoted and when put in a position where they are supposed to know what to do they get it seriously wrong, even putting people at risk. Which brings me back to my original post of how the promotions work as either Ash is quite nicely zipping along the promotions ladder, or she was marked down at an early stage for advancement and special training to get her to NCO status quickly, BOTH of which dispute her claim that the Alliance has it in for her. Basically I was looking for some reason not to think of her as a whining witch that makes Jack seem like a mild mannered individual (because she at least has real things to be pissy about).--TSwiftFan1346 (talk) 11:32, October 23, 2013 (UTC) :I think the last bit of promoting (Mass 2-3) is rather a lot less to do with protocol and rather a lot more with Hackett believing what happened in arrival but not being able to trust Shepard to be back following orders from Alliance command in time. He therefore needs someone with reaper-fighting experience who can go about advising the rest of the alliance military and whatnot. So he just bumps the VS up a few ranks until they have enough authority that people start listening to them (which would also explain why Ash gets commissioned). Also before you go trying to apply the current NATO rank structure to this (I tried doing that before too), there is a codex entry which has a list of Alliance ranks which only one of you guys seems to have read. Midnightpiranha (talk) 23:04, October 24, 2013 (UTC) It has been brought to my attention that after the Cerberus Coup in ME3, Joker points out that Kaidan Alenko drew his weapon on a Superior Officer. That superior officer is Commander Shepard. According to the Wikia, Major is equivalent to Captain which outranks Shepard who may be a Staff Commander. Therefore it was Shepard who drew his/her weapon on a superior officer. So either the Wikia or the Game is wrong. It can't be both. In most Earth militaries, the rank of Major is equivalent to the naval rank of Lt. Commander. Staff Commander, or a regular Commander would be equivalent to a Lt. Colonel. Navy Captain being the equivalent of a full Colonel. This is even in the Canadian military. My question is how can the Wikia be right if Joker's line in the game is correct? The rank of Major should be moved to be equivalent to Lt. Commander. - Julia b Well Julia what Joker said was in regards to Shepard's positional authority. In any Military there are those who are in command status, (command status means you are a company/bigade or battalion commander) which supersedes a person's rank. For example, lets say you have a Chaplain with he rank of major as part of your company. If your company commander is a captain, he outranks the chaplain because he is the company commander. Shepard was the Commander of the Normandy, a ship that Kaidan was recently assigned to before they ended up at the Citadel Hospital. This means they were still listed as part of Shepard's crew and thus a subordinate regardless of their rank. -Ralx225b I would like to point out that in modern military ranks (including the USMC) commissioned officers need a four year college degree. So where and when did Ashley get her degree. The other option is that she received a battlefield commission where a senior enlisted through demonstrated skill and valor is given a temporary commission, but Ashley going from an Ops chief to a LC in unprecedented (the most I have ever heard of is a SgtMaj(E-9) becoming a captain (o-3)) and most battlefield commissions are temporary not at all for the time seen in ME3 Here's my take on this whole "rank" issue. There's this star out there, it's deteriorating too fast for explanation. You must land on the planet and take measurements with equipment that fries before readings can be taken. This makes more sense than using the equipment on the ship you arrived in, which isn't frying while you're gallivanting around on foot. A better explanation for this quest is the planet's magnetosphere is shot to fuck. But hey, the alliance ranks don't make sense. Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 08:51, September 23, 2016 (UTC) I just wanted to point out for the record that there is a slight problem with the originally posited assumptions of Ashley's time in service. The OP probably naturally assumed that Ashley enlisted when she turned 18 in 2176. However, this is not actually correct according to the official timeline. The timeline states that she enlists in 2174! So Ashley was somehow in fact only 16 when she enlisted. This might seem like a typo and it very likely is, however, she is not the only person that official timeline shows to have enlisted at 16. Kai Leng enlists in the alliance in 2172, the same year as Shepard. however, unlike he was born in 2156 making him 16 at the time of enlistment rather than in 2154 when Shepard was born. It may be possible that enlistment into the alliance is possible at 16. We do not have many examples to look at as the timeline only tells us when 5 people enlisted and only 4 of their birthdays. The only other example we have that has both a year of birth and year of enlistment is Kaidan born in 2151 and enlisted in 2173 at the age of 22. We know when when Vega enlists but we aren't told when he was born. Curiously it seems Shepard and Kaidan only differ in their enlistment times by 1 year. I could then only assume the difference in ranks to be perhaps a combination of early promotion and perhaps (in the case of a spacer Shepard) a entry through a program like ROTC or military academy. Chikikosaotome (talk) 08:38, November 25, 2019 (UTC)